Tuesday, April 05, 2011

Judaism’s Passover: Biblical or Talmudic?

Judaism’s Talmudic Passover

Research by Michael Hoffman
www.revisionisthistory.org

The goyim and crypto-rabbis such as the current pope of Rome imagine or teach that “Passover"as observed in Judaism is “Biblical." All kinds of statements about Judaism’s Passover by these "well-wishers,” addressed to the rabbis April 18-26, from the goyim of the worldly steeple-houses of Judeo-Churchianity, as well as from Pope Benedict XVI and his followers, will be framed in Biblical references and terms. The truth is something else, however. Passover as observed in Judaism is Talmudic Passover, not the Passover of the Bible. Take for example the "Four Questions."

The Four Questions
What makes this night different from all other nights?

1. On all nights we need not dip even once, and on this night we dip twice!
2. On all nights we eat leavened bread or matzah, and on this night, only matzah!
3. On all nights we eat various vegetables, and on this night, bitter herbs!
4. On all nights we eat sitting upright or reclining, and on this night we all recline!

The Four Questions Talmudicized

We find many different versions of the Four Questions in the various manuscripts of the Talmud—not only in the order of the questions but in the number as well. Some versions, for example, omit the question about bitter herbs, others omit the question about the Paschal lamb even in Temple times.

The above would seem to indicate that initially there were various acceptable versions, or perhaps no fixed version at all. This was because according to Jewish law one need not ask all the questions.

As the Talmud relates, when Abbaye as a child saw the table being removed from before Rabbah, he exclaimed: “We haven’t eaten yet—and they come and remove the table from before us?!” Rabbah turned to the child and said: “You have exempted us from having to say the four questions”(Pesachim 115b, see Tosfot ad loc.).

At some point, however, the Sages consolidated the various customs and instituted a universal practice of reciting all the questions so that all of Israel would follow the same custom.
Another example of this sort of development is the way we blow the shofar:
The requirement is to blow a wailing sound, called a teruah, preceded and followed by a simple blast, called a tekiah. According to Rav Hai Gaon (cited in Beit Yosef, Orach Chaim 59049), for many centuries the definition of the “wailing” teruah remained unfixed, with various communities performing it in their own way. Some Jewish communities performed it as heavy groans. For others, it was very short“cries,” and yet other communities performed it as a combination of both.

In Talmudic times, the Sages sought to unify all of Israel with a universal custom. They therefore instituted that all Jews blow the shofar in a manner that included all three customs (The Rebbe’s Haggadah).

The Order of the Questions
This order of the questions—(1) dipping, (2) matzah, (3) bitter herbs, (4) reclining—is the order found in the version of the Mishnah as it appears in the Jerusalem Talmud, Alfassi, and Rosh (though the last two questions do not appear there). This is also the order found in the Siddurim of Rav Amram Gaon and Rav Saadiah Gaon, Rambam, Tur, Avudraham (by implication, since his commentary addresses the question about dipping before the others), Abarbanel, Pri Etz Chaim, Siddur of the Arizal, Mishnat Chasidim, and others. It is also the order found in the first printed Haggadah (Soncino, 1485).

SOURCE: The Passover Haggadah: With Commentary from the Classic Commentators, Midrash, Kabbalah, the Hasidic Masters and the Haggadah of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (the late Grand Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson).

***
Michael Hoffman is the author of the 1100 page textbook, Judaism Discovered

For additional research, cf. Baruch M. Bosker, The Origins of the Seder: The Passover Rite and Early Rabbinic Judaism
***

21 comments:

Preterist James S said...

I heard Michael Savage say that the Jews observe Passover today because of the one remaining lit candle that remained in the temple in Jerusalem after it was destroyed by fire in AD70 by the Roman General Titus. He said it was a "sign" to the Jews (after they had lost it all, through no fault but their own).

This prophecy was fulfilled when that temple burned to the ground:

2 Peter 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The "elements" here are not the elements found in The Periodic Table of the Elements.

It is the "rudiments" of Judaism's sacrificial system of worship that was continued in that temple after Jesus was presented as the final Sacrificial Lamb for all of mankind. Peter is saying here that the temple shall melt with fervent heat.

The "earth" here is not meant to understood as the entire planet. It means Israel because the ancient Israelites and the Jews of the 1st century (who were carrying on the tradition) sometimes referred to themselves as "the earth".

The "works" here is all the negative things the Jews with their Judaism had done- from their killing of the Prophets (to which Jesus told them that it would be them and their generation that would have to pay the price for the acts of their forefathers- see Matt 23); to their having Jesus crucified (which they were forgiven of); to their persecution of the Christians and the Christian Church at that time (and what is still being done by them to this very day).

The Torah's account of the Passover is the truth- not the Talmud's account.

for more info see:

preterism101.blogspot.com

Jason said...

You tread close to Sod with the allegorical meanings of "elements", "earth", and "works."

"Sometimes" does not mean all the time and confirms this was not exclusively the case when Israelites referenced "earth."

I disagree with your interpretation of the II Peter verse as I do not think the book, nor Peter's writing are anything but direct. His words cut like a sharpened blade and can make one wince.

Preterist James S said...

"elements"-
Strong's G4747 stoicheion -- pronounced: stoy-khi'-on
neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of 4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively): KJV -- element, principle, rudiment.
See Greek No. 4748

"element" in this verse was literally a proposition and figuratively a principle, a rudiment and not the atoms found on The Periodic Table of Elements.


"earth"-

Jeremiah 6:19  Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Jeremiah 22:29  O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.

Jeremiah 33:9  And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

Hosea 2:21  And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;

Hosea 2:22  And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.

Micah 1:2  Hear, all ye people; hearken, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the Lord from his holy temple.


Were the Prophets addressing the entire planet or were they addressing Israel?

Sam said...

Preterist James wrote:

"to their having Jesus crucified (which they were forgiven of)"


Are you saying the Pharisees were forgiven for ordering the murder of Christ?

If so, can you offer scriptural support?

Jason said...

But James, if Peter was addressing Israel alone in that passage, and they subsequently "burned up" along with their "works" (as you decribe the meaning) in 70AD with the destruction of the temple, then this verse from Peter would be an overstatement since the western world currently operates from under the yoke of those judaic "works" - which you agree persecutes the church even today. From a full preterist perspective, would this not be impossible if these works were "burned up" in 70AD?

Preterist James S said...

Sam,

We all know that Jesus' destiny from the beginning was to die on that cross- He was the final sacrificial Lamb.

Matthew 26:54  But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Matthew 27:38  Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
39  And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,
40  And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
41  Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
42  He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
43  He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
44  The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

Luke 23:34  Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

I believe the Pharisees were forgiven by Jesus for having Him crucified. It was Judas Iscariot, the one who delivered Jesus to them that wasn't told that he was forgiven. I really don't know what to think about Judas because he did repent of what he did- whether or not he was forgiven of his sin is unknown to me. I'm pretty sure that the Pharisees were forgiven for having Jesus crucified. Jesus willingly went before them. He didn't have to, but He went and presented Himself as the final sacrificial Lamb.

Just like Stephen, the first Christian martyr, forgave the Pharisees "for they knew not what they were doing".

The Pharisees were not forgiven for the killing of the Prophets (Matt 23). They were the ones that were to pay the price come Judgment Day for the sins of their forefathers who killed the prophets.

All of Matt 23 condemns the scribes and the Pharisees for their Judaism that they practiced in their temple.

Preterist James S said...

Jason,

One thing I know for sure is that that temple in Jerusalem was set ablaze by the Romans and the heat was so great that the gold therein melted and the Romans gathered it and took it back to Rome with them. By August of AD70 Jerusalem was entirely captured. After the fire the temple was dismantled, stone by stone, until finally "not one stone was left upon another". And the Roman province known as Judea (Israel) was known thereafter as Palestine- up until 1948 when the United Nations, not God, but the United Nations under the leadership of the "Jews", reinstated "Israel" as a "nation".

Jesus warned EVERYONE, including the Jews, of the impending wrath that was to be coming upon Jerusalem and the judgment of the 12 tribes of Israel. God provided enough time for everyone to come to their senses and repent of their sins before the final day of judgment came upon them. Some heeded the words of Jesus and the Apostles and fled Jerusalem. Others did not heed the words of Jesus and the Apostles, did not repent of their sins and stayed in Jerusalem and got themselves into deeper trouble when they decided to take on the Roman Empire and revolt.

After those events of AD70 the Jews no longer had their homeland and the sacrificial system of worship came to an end.

The "Jews" of today cannot trace their lineage back to Judea.

From what I've learned, anyone who claims to be a "Jew" had their beginnings, not in Judea (Israel), but in the Khazar region of Eastern Europe now known as Georgia.

So if anyone claims to be a "Jew" with his lineage going back to Judea, he is lying.

Preterist James S said...

Jason,

The earth is new now in a twofold way-

The one way being that New Jerusalem, heaven, the tabernacle of God where God dwells, is now here on planet Earth where God now dwells with man (Rev 21). This is not saying that the entire planet earth is now heaven. No, it is saying that the holy city New Jerusalem came down from heaven and occupies a space of 1,500 mi. x 1,500 mi. x 1,500 miles centered over Mt. Zion (I believe). It actually has the exact borders that was promised by God to Abraham with the great river of Egypt as its western border and all of the Euphrates River as its eastern border and containing all of the Saudi Arabian Peninsula to the south and all of modern-day Turkey to the north.

You can't see it with your eyes but I personally believe it is there.

The other way it being the new earth, the new Israel, is that the old Israel has been replaced by "the Israel of God"...

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Was this "Israel of God" Paul spoke of ancient Israel?, the Jews of the day?, Judea?,...

Or was it the Christians and the Christian Church with Jesus Christ as the head of the Church?

The entire book of Galatians exposes the Judaizers and their attempts on Judaizing the Christian Church.

The "new earth", the new Israel, is the "Israel of God"- all of the believers: past, present and future.

As far as this unBiblical Judaism, as Michael Hoffman describes it, goes, it is not a legitimate religion. In God's eyes it no longer exists, I believe.

But to the "Jews" and their "Judaism" of today- they have perpetrated the greatest conspiracy of all- even greater than their NWO...

That is that Jesus never returned in judgment of the 12 tribes like He said He would when He said He would; that the destruction of that temple in Jerusalem was not a result of His 2nd Coming; that "at hand" does not mean imminently; that the expression "I am coming soon" does not mean "I am coming soon" but means "I am coming 1,000's of years into the future; that the expression "this generation" means literally "this generation" throughout the entire Bible EXCEPT for verses like Matt 24:34; that Judaism, which was unacceptable to Jesus and the Apiostles back then is now acceptable to God and that the modern-day "Jew" is still part of the "Chosen" of God; that the majority of Christians today have been duped into believing all the lies that the "Jews" have been feeding them over all these years- all these years going back to AD70.....

Sam said...

Preterist James,

You quote Luke 23:34 as evidence that Jesus forgave the Pharisees for his murder.
In Luke 23:33-34, Jesus is referring to the Roman’s who executed the Pharisee’s death sentence:

“33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.”

The Roman soldiers were the ones who “crucified him” in verse 33 and the same ones referred to in verse 34 when Jesus stated “forgive them; for they know not what they do.” They were carrying out an order and did not know that they were committing a cosmic crime of epic proportions unprecedented then and for all time to come—killing the son of God.

Conversely, Jesus cannot be referring to the Pharisee’s because they knew exactly what they were doing. The Gospels are replete with examples of Jesus being harassed and hounded by the Pharisees until his death. Matthew 12:14 states” Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him” after Jesus rejected their oral traditions and asserted his Lordship. And the Pharisees knowingly proceeded to have Jesus crucified despite Pilate’s reluctance (Luke 23:20-24)

You state:
I'm pretty sure that the Pharisees were forgiven for having Jesus crucified. Jesus willingly went before them. He didn't have to, but He went and presented Himself as the final sacrificial Lamb.. . .(and)
The Pharisees were not forgiven for the killing of the Prophets (Matt 23). They were the ones that were to pay the price come Judgment Day for the sins of their forefathers who killed the prophets.


Yes, Christ came to fulfill prophecy but I can see no Biblical justification absolving the Pharisees of His murder. I don’t think it is profitable to engage in such speculation when Jesus in Matthew 23:33 says of the Pharisees “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”

Furthermore, how can there be an inference of forgiveness when He returned in the glory of his Father in 70 A.D. turning the tables on the Pharisees who put him to death in 33 A.D. by divinely directing the Roman Army to destroy the Temple as He prophesised?

Jason said...

James,
First, thank you for your candor.

Regarding God's forgiveness, yes he gave it but did the pharisees accept? Only by repentence could they have accepted this gift, and only God knows if they in fact did that before they died.

In addition, I am no dispensationalist so I agree with some of your points. However, as I'm no full preterist we have disagreements. I think you attribute characteristics to Saint Peter that I can find no justification in Scripture for, whether by his own writing or by his actions as recorded in the Gospels and Acts. I also think you are placing the physical above the spiritual when it comes to the temple of God (1 Cor 3:16, 17; 6:19; 2 Cor 6:16). I'm no theologian so my interpretation is not perfect, but I'm glad we were able to have this discussion.

Preterist James S said...

Sam,

I think Jason's comment above adequately describes my views on whether Jesus forgave them or not. The passage in Luke makes me believe that Jesus asked His Father to forgive them all, including the Pharisees, because He obviously fealt that all of them there, from the Pharisees who insisted that Jesus be killed to the Roman soldiers who were just following orders, did not know what they were doing.

The Pharisees were guilty without doubt, but Jesus' words of forgiveness fell on deaf ears... they continued on after that day with business as usual: sealing the tomb and having it guarded for fear that Jesus may arise from the dead; a few years later killing Stephen; after killing Stephen persecuting the Christians in Jerusalem causing them to flee the city; persecuting Peter and Paul; sending their agents out "Judaizing" the Church; lying to and deceiving all involved the whole time while things were leading up to the events of AD70.

I believe those "Judaizers" were the false prophets Jesus was warning about in Matthew 23 and I also believe that the Beast from the Earth (Israel), aka The False Prophet who came from the Earth (Israel) of Rev 13, was the Chief Priest at the time of the Great Tribulation which began when the False Prophet had the Image of the Beast from the Sea made and which stood in the temple.

I also believe that the "Judaizers" were also the "false Christs" that Jesus warned them about.

Preterist James S said...

Sam,

Regarding the "Beast from the Sea" and its nomenclature: The "sea" represented the barrier between Israel (the earth) and all the other nations other than Israel. In other words, to the Jews of that time, one had to cross the sea to get to all the other foreign lands of the world.

So this "Beast from the Sea" indicates that this person (not a literal beast from the sea like the Loch Ness Monster) came from a foreign land and that one had to cross the sea in order to get to that foreign land.

The "Beast from the Earth" indicates that this person came from within Israel.

I learned this all from J.S. Russell's 'The Parousia' that was published in 1878. Russell also taught that it was Nero who was the "Beast from the Sea". I was convinced after reading his book that this was the case.

So, I'm not saying that I've figured all this out on my own or that I have it all figured out completely. I've learned most of these things from teachers who I believe are telling the truth about Scripture- especially Biblical eschatology.

One original thought that I've come up with is the 'thousand years' chronology- I cannot agree with other preterists regarding their take on it. Even J.S. Russell believed that the phrase 'thousand years' was to be taken literally as a thousand years. So he concluded in his book that that portion of Revelation (Rev 20) remained unfulfilled. But this I cannot believe can be true because throughout the entire book of Revelation it is indicated that that all the "things" mentioned in the book were about to happen (Rev 1:1, 3; 22:7, 10, 12, 20).

The 'thousand years' happens before Christ's return according to Rev 20. How can Christ live and reign with those saints who were beheaded for their faith in Jesus and did not accept the "mark of the beast' in this perfect world during a time period of literally 1,000 years only to have Satan be released from his prison at the end of the 'thousand years' so that he can gather the nations to war against the "camp of the saints" in Jerusalem?... It just not make any sense.

Another original thought that I believe may be the case is that the 'abomination of desolation that stands in the holy place' mentioned by Jesus in Matt 24 is the 'image of the beast' of Rev 13 which comes to life and is described as "which had the wound by a sword, and did live" which sounds like Nero. Nero had commited suicide so they say in AD68 but there were rumors at that time that he was still alive. The 'image of the beast', Nero, did indeed come to life, according to Rev 13.... It all just makes perfect sense to me anyway.

I know this has nothing to do with the forgiveness issue but...

Preterist James S said...

Jason,

Thank you for your explanation regarding the forgiveness issue. You sound like a reasonable man to me.

Jason, regarding full preterism- Peter also wrote these verses to his Jewish brothers and sisters in Christ:

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. ("Babylon"- that is Jerusalem, where Peter was. It is the same "Babylon" mentioned in Revelation 16, 17 and 18.)

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Futurists believe that verses like these are not indicating that the "2nd Coming" was imminent to those 1st century saints. Reading these verses I personally can't see it any other way but that they in that 1st century were expecting Jesus to return in judgment during their lifetimes, during their generation.

Futurists also believe that this entire globe is going to be "melted with fervent heat" and that every single "nation" on earth is going to be judged.

But now I must ask- how does one explain this verse?:

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them (His disciples), Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus did not return to judge all the nations of the globe; He returned in judgment of the earth (Israel), specifically the 12 tribes (nations) of Israel.....

And when He returned on that fateful day in May of AD70, He made sure that Command Central, aka, the TEMPLE in "Babylon" (Jerusalem) was destroyed by fire, where "the elements melted with fervent heat".....

Preterist James S said...

Jason,

Regarding the temple of God mentioned in 1 Cor 3:16, 17; 6:19; 2 Cor 6:16- we're talking of two different temples now.

That temple in Jerusalem was not the temple of God. It was originally intended to be the temple of God by the Israelites but it had morphed into the antithesis of the temple of God by the time of Jesus. The temple hierarchy was practicing their unBiblical Judaism and was "teaching as doctrine the commandments of men rather than the commandments of God...". Actually, the Pharisees were teaching out of their own Talmud, which had its beginnings during the Babylonian captivity period mentioned in the O.T. Instead of teaching the Torah, the Jews were teaching and enforcing the Talmud and Jesus repeatedly pointed this out to them everytime He had a confrontation with them. He condemned them for it and told them that it was they and their generation and their practice of their Judaism who were going to pay the price for their predicted persecution of the prophets that Jesus was going to send to them and for their forefathers' killing of the prophets (Matt 23).

Jesus told them all that not one stone of that temple would be left upon another. And when His disciples heard those words, they immediately equated the destruction of that temple with His return in judgment, His 2nd Coming... His return in judgment on that very temple and the twelve tribes of Israel:

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world(the end of the "age", the end of the old covenant and the beginning of the new)?

He answered the "when" part of their question in verse 34:

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

THIS generation, not some generation 1,000's of years into the future.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming (in judgment) in his kingdom.

Jesus and all of the Apostles told those people back then that He was going to return in judgment of the 12 tribes of Israel while some of them would still be alive.

Preterist James S said...

Jason,

Jesus and all of the Apostles told those people back then that He was going to return in judgment of the 12 tribes of Israel during THEIR generation, not some generation 1,000's of years into the future.

And I personally believe with all my heart, soul and mind that the Christians back then believed it in that way.

You claim that you are not a theologian.

Both you and I and everyone else have heard theologians' and so-called "Biblical scholars'" interpretations of Scripture all our lives and have even read THEIR commentaries in the Bible. These "experts", including guys like Futurist Hal Lindsay (Late Great Planet Earth), Futurist Tim LaHaye (the Left Behind series), Futurist John Hagee (Zionist Christian extrordinaire), Jack VanImpe, Harold Camping.... and all the rest, have been taught their views by like-minded theologians and Biblical scholars. The pastors and priests and clergy have been taught in seminaries and they relay their "teachings" on to their congregations, TV audiences, etc., etc.,

You and I and everyone else have every right to question these theologians and their interpretations. The Bereans mentioned in Galatians did question Paul's teachings by investigating the Torah to see if what he was saying was true. And they found out that what he was saying was true.

There are many critics of preterism. I do not claim to know it all. But I will never be convinced that, just based on the time-indicator verses alone, that preterism has more truth to it than futurism.

Thanks for your patience and consideration.

Michael Hoffman said...

Thanks to the Preterist and non-Preterist writers who have submitted comments herein.

However, these comments are now far from the topic of this blog post, the non-Biblical, Talmudic Passover.

I will entertain additional comments on Talmudic Passover.

No further comments on Preterism or anti-Preterism will be published here. There are numerous blogs available which are dedicated to debating that controversy. Thank you.

Preterist James S said...

Michael,

Thanks for allowing me the use of your pulpit.

But , if I may, correct my statement in the last post I made?

I meant to say that I will never be convinced that, just based on the time-indicator verses alone, that futurism has more truth to it than preterism.

Again, Michael, thanks for allowing me to state my views on your blog.

Jason said...

After doing a little reading, this appears to be a rite of Spring of sorts for Judaism to be taught to younger generations, perhaps similar to the current masonic spring rites of the Masters golf tournament and last week's "Opening Day" of major league baseball. Anyway, some sources put the origin of this Talmudic Seder at 70AD. The link below discusses whether the Last Supper as presented in the Gospels was a Seder meal or not:

http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/jesus-last-supper.asp#location1

Christ as the lamb of God at the Last Supper, for me anyway, is a clear demonstration of how the OT was made new in Jesus. Thanks for sharing this info on the Talmudic passover corruption.

Meshuganah said...

The last supper consisted of bread and wine....."As oft as you do this, do it in rememberance of me".
This was shared on the Passover just before Jesus went to the Garden to pray....Good enough for me!

The Talmud has little more credibility or integrity than the Quran....just the ramblings of madmen.

Meshuganah said...

Jason, your link is interesting but it is based upon an inaccuracy...dare I say it? Mark 14:12 states that they were at the day of the sacrifice, (Passover)and that it was the First Day of Unleaven Bread....not possible, the 'First day' is the day after Passover, beginning the evening before.
The last supper was on the evening before Passover while bread was still allowed, The day after Passover, the 'First day' bread was not allowed. Cheers.

AHLC said...

Greetings all, My name is Rebbi Asher, a friend sent me to an article here, but I find this one moreinteresting. Can I assume it is mostly Christians here? Then if so it is finally so good to see some Christians finally doing some scholarly digging to find the original truth; which post Babylonian Judasim is NOT! Although I was born into the more ancient sect of Karaite Hebrew observance; with 21+ generations of Karaite scholars before me; most of my life has been devoted to reteaching Christians into the awareness of all the previously false post Babylonian Judaic doctrines which Christianity is unfortunatly rooted in. What I think I'm seeing here in the blog for the first time is the awareness of Christians that all post Babylonian Rabbi's have always known and been accutely aware that much of what they teach has been made up by them. I say them not including myself because Karaite Hebrews do not believe in any Talmudic law. I do however even break from my own Karaite tradition because even much of it is hypocracy. This is getting long; I look foreward to seeing more of these discussions.
R' Asher ThD


http://ancienthebrewlearningcenter.blogspot.com/2011/08/to-hell-back-hidden-truths-of-talmudic.html